Defensive line, what do we do to stop the run next year
Its mind boggling how we're so bad against the run. Wagner and Luvu are good LBs. Payne and Allen are good DTs. I feel like it could be the Edges. We get gashed on the flanks a lot. But we also get run up the middle a lot too. I don't know what it is. Is it scheme? I feel like perhaps we're playing lighter boxes to protect our shitty CBs.
I think the average fan and the general stats probably under estimates our run defense.
We've played some very good run teams (Pittsburgh, the Eagles, the Bucs and Baltimore are some of the best rushing teams in the league, and teams like the Atlanta are good). Couple that with, ignoring Daniels, are running attack hasn't been very good. So if you are comparing our run defense compared to how the run defense of the team we are playing a lot of weeks we look bad.
But we also don't have anybody that is just great against the run.
Newton has been very good to good, especially considering he's a rookie 2nd round player. Allen, like Robinson, I felt like started strong, but then he got hurt and hasn't been very good since coming back. Payne I feel like is best at averages. The LBs are pretty sure tacklers, but not dynamic as play makers or getting off blocks. The DEs and safeties aren't even good.
The net effect is a defense that is averagish to good against the run that looks bad against good running teams and compared to how even an average defense does against our running backs.
Teams with very good run defenses often have a guy that is just a stud that can blow up the other teams rushing offense. We don't have that. Maybe with another Newton becomes that.
We've played some very good run teams (Pittsburgh, the Eagles, the Bucs and Baltimore are some of the best rushing teams in the league, and teams like the Atlanta are good). Couple that with, ignoring Daniels, are running attack hasn't been very good. So if you are comparing our run defense compared to how the run defense of the team we are playing a lot of weeks we look bad.
But we also don't have anybody that is just great against the run.
Newton has been very good to good, especially considering he's a rookie 2nd round player. Allen, like Robinson, I felt like started strong, but then he got hurt and hasn't been very good since coming back. Payne I feel like is best at averages. The LBs are pretty sure tacklers, but not dynamic as play makers or getting off blocks. The DEs and safeties aren't even good.
The net effect is a defense that is averagish to good against the run that looks bad against good running teams and compared to how even an average defense does against our running backs.
Teams with very good run defenses often have a guy that is just a stud that can blow up the other teams rushing offense. We don't have that. Maybe with another Newton becomes that.
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What evidence do you have that Jon Allen started strong before the injury? They weren't just getting gashed by good run teams, the Giants and most everyone else has gashed this team all season.PeterMP wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 7:07 pm I think the average fan and the general stats probably under estimates our run defense.
We've played some very good run teams (Pittsburgh, the Eagles, the Bucs and Baltimore are some of the best rushing teams in the league, and teams like the Atlanta are good). Couple that with, ignoring Daniels, are running attack hasn't been very good. So if you are comparing our run defense compared to how the run defense of the team we are playing a lot of weeks we look bad.
But we also don't have anybody that is just great against the run.
Newton has been very good to good, especially considering he's a rookie 2nd round player. Allen, like Robinson, I felt like started strong, but then he got hurt and hasn't been very good since coming back. Payne I feel like is best at averages. The LBs are pretty sure tacklers, but not dynamic as play makers or getting off blocks. The DEs and safeties aren't even good.
The net effect is a defense that is averagish to good against the run that looks bad against good running teams and compared to how even an average defense does against our running backs.
Teams with very good run defenses often have a guy that is just a stud that can blow up the other teams rushing offense. We don't have that. Maybe with another Newton becomes that.
I'm not seeing what others are seeing in Johnny Newton so far. He had a good game against the Eagles but in most weeks he kind of disappears. The rando DL they picked up appear to be making just as many plays. He gives them no push on passing downs from the middle and he is not doing well against the run either.
Last edited by Darrell Green Fan on Wed Jan 08, 2025 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
I doubt this is gonna happen, we really need to pick up a defensive end and a linebacker.CarolinaB&G wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 9:06 pm You trade Payne and Allen for whatever you can get and sign B.J Hill (Cinn) and either DAlvin Tomlinso(Cle) or Sebastian Joseph(Tenn. You can't get everything in one draft so start working on building depth from the draft.
I don't think trading Payne or Allen is the answer. For one thing, we'd get really poor value. At best we get like what a 5th rounder for them? Not worth it. We'd just be creating another hole that we have to fill.
I think scheme is a big part of it. We don't really heavily stack the box or attack the run with ferocity like other teams do, because we're afraid of our CBs getting roasted. IIRC the Saints game we had Lattimore and as a result were much better against the run because we didn't have to worry as much about our CBs getting killed.
But you look at the Dallas game. Our CBs couldn't even cover the likes of Jalen Tolbert. We couldn't stack the box heavily against the Falcons. We shut down Saquon after the first quarter because once Hurts got injured we didn't have as much fear of the Eagles pass game(and even then, Pickett was lighting us up and if not for drops we lose that game).
The other thing is I think we're willing to give up the run if it means stopping the pass because eventually our offense will get us points and force the other teams to pass where they make mistakes. Unfortunately we haven't been as good at generating takeaways. Basically, bend but don't break type stuff.
Upgrading the CBs is probably the best answer to upgrading our run D.
I think scheme is a big part of it. We don't really heavily stack the box or attack the run with ferocity like other teams do, because we're afraid of our CBs getting roasted. IIRC the Saints game we had Lattimore and as a result were much better against the run because we didn't have to worry as much about our CBs getting killed.
But you look at the Dallas game. Our CBs couldn't even cover the likes of Jalen Tolbert. We couldn't stack the box heavily against the Falcons. We shut down Saquon after the first quarter because once Hurts got injured we didn't have as much fear of the Eagles pass game(and even then, Pickett was lighting us up and if not for drops we lose that game).
The other thing is I think we're willing to give up the run if it means stopping the pass because eventually our offense will get us points and force the other teams to pass where they make mistakes. Unfortunately we haven't been as good at generating takeaways. Basically, bend but don't break type stuff.
Upgrading the CBs is probably the best answer to upgrading our run D.
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Truth is, that we don't have a ton of talent there. We see improved coaching impacting all over the place, but the DL has not been good. I know Allen missed a lot of time and was ok last game. Payne is just a guy this year, blocked and the RB gets right by him.
So, "What do we do to stop the run next year?" is probably using the draft and FA with tons of space to upgrade with guys who can fix what Quinn/Whitt are trying to do. Newton has flashed, BTW.
So, "What do we do to stop the run next year?" is probably using the draft and FA with tons of space to upgrade with guys who can fix what Quinn/Whitt are trying to do. Newton has flashed, BTW.