Defensive line, what do we do to stop the run next year

[brandies]

Here are some of the top run stoppers in the 2025 NFL draft:
Mason Graham: A top-five overall talent at defensive tackle, Graham has shown elite performance for two seasons in a row.
Kenneth Grant: A nimble 335 pounds, Grant is a teammate of Graham's and could be a top half first round pick.
Tyleik Williams: A stout run defender with pass-rush potential.
T.J. Sanders: A fast and violent interior player who had a strong 2024 season.
Walter Nolen: A fast and violent interior player who had a strong 2024 season.

List below from Draft Buzz

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/positions/DL/1/2025

[PeterMP]

I'm not sure being better than the other DTs, if that's really the case, is much to hang your hat on. Allen was healthy at the start of the season. We hardly ever heard his name called as teams ran at will right up the gut on us. He just hasn't had much of an impact for 2 seasons now. At least Payne flashes at times, Allen has been mostly invisible.

Same with Newton. I've read the advanced stats, they don't match the eye test. I watch him a lot of passing downs and he is contantly stood up at the LOS. he may have a reasonable tackle for loss figure, and I understand he's a rookie who has missed time, but he also is invisible far too much for me.

I think Allen, when he was healthy, was better and flashed more than Payne. I think he was better than last year. I'm not saying he was Myles Garrett.

In terms of Newton, he's not a good pass rusher. Good pass rushing DTs don't generally go in the 2nd round. And I doubt he ever will be. Pass rushing requires a set of skills (pass rushing moves, hand skills, etc.) that being a run stopper doesn't and aren't something he appears strong on. He seems to have some base quickness that makes him hard to block if a blocker is moving/pulling, and he seems to hold up ok at the point of attack (getting stood up at the LOS on a pass is bad, but holding your ground at the LOS on a run play is good, especially if you can then get off the block and get the tackle), and he doesn't seem to miss many tackles.

In totality, I'm not saying he's ever going to be a top 10 DT where those people are also good pass rushers. But I think he can be a very good run defender, especially given another year to get bigger and stronger and have a better understanding of NFL run schemes (better reading the OL/blockers).

(Though I do suspect he'd look better as a rusher if they got more pass rush out of their DEs. But I doubt he'll ever be a double digit sack person.)

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm not sure being better than the other DTs, if that's really the case, is much to hang your hat on. Allen was healthy at the start of the season. We hardly ever heard his name called as teams ran at will right up the gut on us. He just hasn't had much of an impact for 2 seasons now. At least Payne flashes at times, Allen has been mostly invisible.

Same with Newton. I've read the advanced stats, they don't match the eye test. I watch him a lot of passing downs and he is contantly stood up at the LOS. he may have a reasonable tackle for loss figure, and I understand he's a rookie who has missed time, but he also is invisible far too much for me.

I think Allen, when he was healthy, was better and flashed more than Payne. I think he was better than last year. I'm not saying he was Myles Garrett.

In terms of Newton, he's not a good pass rusher. Good pass rushing DTs don't generally go in the 2nd round. And I doubt he ever will be. Pass rushing requires a set of skills (pass rushing moves, hand skills, etc.) that being a run stopper doesn't and aren't something he appears strong on. He seems to have some base quickness that makes him hard to block if a blocker is moving/pulling, and he seems to hold up ok at the point of attack (getting stood up at the LOS on a pass is bad, but holding your ground at the LOS on a run play is good, especially if you can then get off the block and get the tackle), and he doesn't seem to miss many tackles.

In totality, I'm not saying he's ever going to be a top 10 DT where those people are also good pass rushers. But I think he can be a very good run defender, especially given another year to get bigger and stronger and have a better understanding of NFL run schemes (better reading the OL/blockers).

(Though I do suspect he'd look better as a rusher if they got more pass rush out of their DEs. But I doubt he'll ever be a double digit sack person.)

I'm not expecting 10 sacks from a DT, that's rare. But all I heard from Draft Day was how he was a steal and a probable impact player and we just haven't seen much evidence of that this season.

I'm also concerned about Sinnott and McCaffery. Rookie tight ends rarely are productive but this guy has been invisible. I understand Crowder was hurt and returned but McCaffery was getting opportunities early in the year and didn't do a lot with that playing time and now he too is a ghost. Again I understand he is a converted QB but I think it's unrealistic to expect more than WR4 or so for him.

[PeterMP]

I'm not expecting 10 sacks from a DT, that's rare. But all I heard from Draft Day was how he was a steal and a probable impact player and we just haven't seen much evidence of that this season.

I'm also concerned about Sinnott and McCaffery. Rookie tight ends rarely are productive but this guy has been invisible. I understand Crowder was hurt and returned but McCaffery was getting opportunities early in the year and didn't do a lot with that playing time and now he too is a ghost. Again I understand he is a converted QB but I think it's unrealistic to expect more than WR4 or so for him.

Seemed to be the DL did pretty well this weekend. I know a lot was limiting the Bucs possession, but they held Irving to under his average yards/attempt. And Newton had the big stop with the tackle in the back field.

If you are judging Newton by some of the post-draft hype, I agree. I don't think he will turn out to be the "steal" of the draft. He looks like a guy to me that can be a good run defender as part of a good DL. He's pretty stout at the POA, and I suspect he'll get better with another year and getting bigger and stronger, and if there's any sort of issue in terms of the OL being slow or a gap, he's quick enough to get into the back field.

(McCaffery never made sense to me as a 3rd round pick unless you were comfortable enough with him throwing the ball to use him in trick plays, which they don't seem to be (think of using him instead of Mariota in the plays this weekend) and having Mariota as your backup QB where he's still pretty athletic and can run minimizes McCaffery's utility in trick plays. I never thought he'd be good enough as a WR alone to warrant where he picked. In that sense, I'm not concerned. That he's carved out a pretty good role as on special teams to me seems to be a positive.

The Sinnott situation to me is confusing and concerning. I'm hoping that they see what is clearly a declining Ertz as sort of a security blanket and are favoring the veteran over the rookie in terms of snaps and play calls.

[brandies]

I could see Payne stepping up with a superbowl on the horizon- it would be excellent. Newton with another year recovery from injury could be frightening. It would be great to resign Allen at a much lower cap hit. 2 CB's in FA, a WR in FA. Edge at 1 in the first round and OT and RB in the second and third, sign our own FA's who earned it and we have made a big step forward. Probably about 30 million left in Cap.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm not expecting 10 sacks from a DT, that's rare. But all I heard from Draft Day was how he was a steal and a probable impact player and we just haven't seen much evidence of that this season.

I'm also concerned about Sinnott and McCaffery. Rookie tight ends rarely are productive but this guy has been invisible. I understand Crowder was hurt and returned but McCaffery was getting opportunities early in the year and didn't do a lot with that playing time and now he too is a ghost. Again I understand he is a converted QB but I think it's unrealistic to expect more than WR4 or so for him.

Seemed to be the DL did pretty well this weekend. I know a lot was limiting the Bucs possession, but they held Irving to under his average yards/attempt. And Newton had the big stop with the tackle in the back field.

If you are judging Newton by some of the post-draft hype, I agree. I don't think he will turn out to be the "steal" of the draft. He looks like a guy to me that can be a good run defender as part of a good DL. He's pretty stout at the POA, and I suspect he'll get better with another year and getting bigger and stronger, and if there's any sort of issue in terms of the OL being slow or a gap, he's quick enough to get into the back field.

(McCaffery never made sense to me as a 3rd round pick unless you were comfortable enough with him throwing the ball to use him in trick plays, which they don't seem to be (think of using him instead of Mariota in the plays this weekend) and having Mariota as your backup QB where he's still pretty athletic and can run minimizes McCaffery's utility in trick plays. I never thought he'd be good enough as a WR alone to warrant where he picked. In that sense, I'm not concerned. That he's carved out a pretty good role as on special teams to me seems to be a positive.

The Sinnott situation to me is confusing and concerning. I'm hoping that they see what is clearly a declining Ertz as sort of a security blanket and are favoring the veteran over the rookie in terms of snaps and play calls.

Good summary. I began to get worried when they started throwing the ball to John Bates and not Ben Sinnott. I actually thought that was one of their safer picks, really surprised he has shown pretty much nothing.

[Warhead36]

I honestly think its mainly scheme based as to why we're not better against the run. Our basic gameplan is that we're gonna let you run, knowing that either we'll eventually stop you in the red zone or you'll mess up, but we don't wanna give up the big explosives in the pass game.

Look at the Philly game. Once Hurts went out, we went all in to sell out against the run and completely shut down Barkley. But it also left us vulnerable to the pass game and even Pickett was making some big time throws against us(if Devante doesn't drop that ball we lose).

Bucs threw on us, but didn't have any huge explosive pass plays, and we were able to hold them to 20 points, because they made mistakes like we thought they would.

The strategy works against a lot of teams, but against high functioning offenses like the Ravens, Eagles with Hurts etc. it falls apart. Unfortunately the Lions are also one of those teams, but in fairness they've been lighting up everyone.

[Darrell Green Fan]

What team plans to allow a team to run on them, if I read your post correctly? Every coach ever has said before every game ever the key to the game is to run the ball and stop the run.

Now I do believe they schemed to protect their corners. But again you should not have to commit 8 in the box to prevent being gashed right up the middle. That is the entire problem here, not scheme IMO.

[GoingCommando]

Stopping the run usually comes down to having more numbers in the area of the run than the offense has blockers. You can achieve it in different ways, but the goal of dominant run D is always to win the numbers game at the point of attack

You can also run light boxes that leave you more vulnerable to the run because you are focusing on limiting the passing game, e.g. running nickle early downs against heavier looking personnel/tight formations, and running 2 or 3 high shell coverages. I think Warhead is saying that this is the choice we are making, and I think he's probably right. It follows that we'd do this because of how weak we've been in the secondary. We also have to scheme most of our pressure by blitzing linebackers and stunting and stuff like that leaves you vulnerable when they check to runs.

[Warhead36]

Yeah what GC said. Obviously you don't just LET a team run on you, but you also have to pick your poison unless you're just a dominant all around unit which almost doesn't even exist anymore in today's NFL ( even the great Steelers D got absolutely lit up by the Ravens).

If you have an offense that can score a lot, its not a terrible strategy to play safer and concede more on the run knowing that eventually the other team will make a mistake, run a suboptimal play(maybe we get an early TFL on 1st down) to get them off schedule, etc.

Its frustrating as hell to watch for sure, but it probably gives us the best chance to win until we upgrade the talent level at Edge and CB.